May I also recommend that you go read Percy Bysshe Shelley from whom I derived my handle ‘Ozymandias’ by his poem of this name. It may be that you will comprehend the resonance

There is a reason media reports are not used as testimony in court, you realize?

I have continued to call for the full investigation. Which was underway before Time magazine reported it, contrary to the “truth” you think you know from the media. Captain Ed linked that information today.

# Ozymandias Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:27 am

Juggler is absolutely right in his analysis – with one caveat: Haditha had ALREADY been buried by the initial investigation – which serves to amplify further Juggler’s position – which to an objective outsider seems well argued, coherent, reasonable, reasoned, fair and consistent.

The facts also therefore appear straightforward: Haditha occured [Who was it said ‘Stuff Happens’? - Couldn’t have been Rummy by any chance could it!?] A quick and I would guess somewhat cursory internal investigation buried the whole episode and the boys crossed their fingers – Then Time for some reason – and good for them – investigated and published which in turn generated enough heat to trigger a further investigation – and finally we are getting a little but closer to what actually happened – and Murtha – God Bless Him – used his pulpit in Congress to nudge the whole story along into the mainstream media.

Maybe we will actually get to hear the full facts some time soon too – but certainly with no thanks to the US Media across the board who still seem to continue to be being reluctantly dragged screaming toward the responsibilities of the Fourth Estate.

The tone of both Donna & Gaius seem to me to adopt the apearance of being reasonable – but in reality are another – though admittedly less belligerent – apologist response in defense of the indefensible

As both an Aussie & a Brit – I along with many in most of the rest of the Western World – find it truly incomprehensible to understand why it is that America seems so utterly incapable of looking in the mirror and seeing what is blindingly obvious.

Please help to educate me

The facts also therefore appear straightforward: Haditha occured [Who was it said 'Stuff Happens'? - Couldn't have been Rummy by any chance could it!?] A quick internal investigation buried the whole episode and the boys crossed their fingers – Time foe some – and good for them – reason investigated and published which in term generated enough heat along with to trigger a further investigation – and finally we are getting a little but closer to what actually happened – and Murtha – God Bless Him – used his pulpiy in Congress to nudge the whole story along into the mainstream media. Maybe we will actually get to hear the full facts somet time soon too – but certainly with no thanks to the US Media across the board who still seem to continue to be being reluctantly dragged screaming toward the responsibility of the Fourth Estate.

The tone of both Donna & Gaius seem to me to adopt the apearance of being reasonable – but in reality are another – though admittedly less belligerent – apologist response in defense of the indefensible

As both an Aussie & a Brit – I along with many in most of the rest of the Western World – find it truly incomprehensible to understand why it is that America seems so utterly incapable of looking in the mirror and seeing what is blindingly obvious.

Please help to educate me

You’re the one who is 100% politically motivated.

If you think that someone who consistently calls for full investigation of war crimes and who calls for due process for all accused of crimes has a faulty moral compass, then you’ve got problems.

I’m glad that Murtha said what he did–he made it harder for the DoD to bury the results of the investigation, as happened with the investigation of Tiger Force. If only some member of Congress had done the same thing in the 70s perhaps those war crimes would have been prosecuted.

While you position doesn’t explicitly excuse war crimes, I beleive that’s the net effect, as it makes it easier for them to be swept under the rug, as has happened in the past.

My position is, the DoD has a proven history of whitewashing atrocities, so Murtha’s statements bringing the allegations more exposure made that more difficult, so it was a good thing that he said what he said. Those who call him a traitor are actually making life easier for war criminals.

He didn’t actually name names. It also looks like what he said was true. Yes, the perpetrators deserve due process–I would never, ever argue otherwise.

At the same time, you have never acknowledged that atrocities often go unpunished. Again, only one person ever was convicted in the My Lai massacre, and he served a grand total of 3 1/2 years of house arrest.

Nobody has ever been prosecuted for the war-crime rampage of Tiger Force in Vietnam, and the DoD buried the results of the investigation.

It’s funny to see conservatives caring more about alleged perpetrators of crimes than their victims.

Get this quite straight, juggler. Murtha stated in no uncertain terms that the Marines were “cold blooded killers”. He did not afford them the same protections any criminal in this country gets.

Yet, based on incomplete information, you said “If there ever was a case where a number of people must be fired, this is one. There simply is no excuse – none whatsoever – for this. Nobody should be able to do this kind of damage; the entire system of security is a joke.”

Perhaps you should start holding yourself to the same standard you want to hold Murtha.

Yes, it is very sad. It’s why I have to do my best to keep it from spreading, too.

Yuck, I must have no ‘sophisticated’ sense of humor, Gaius. That site is like a sewer pipe, collecting droppings of diarrhea from sicko types.

The odor was so bad at patriotboy that I could not take anything I read there as worth attention. Yes, they took your quote out of context…..and yes, some commenters were flippantly ‘tarring all the troops’….but, Gaius, if that site [which I will never visit again] is as popular as you say it is, that is a sad commentary on America.