Not At All Helpful
CAIR continues to garner international attention for its cries of Muslim oppression in the US. The utterly shocking statistics they cite?
1,552 complaints in 2004. Only 141 are called potentially violent.
"Most Americans don't know Muslims except for those they work with in an urban environment so all the information they get is through the media," said Dawud Walid, director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American Islamic Relations.
After having shown some restraint in his rhetoric after 19 Muslim men affiliated with Al-Qaeda flew planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President George W. Bush has of late been using far more inflammatory language such as 'Islamofacists,' Walid said.
"When the religious and political leaders use polarizing language these are the unfortunate side effects. It stretches from the likes of (Christian Coalition leader) Pat Robinson all the way up to President Bush."
CAIR has seen a steady increase in the number of complaints of harassment, violence and discriminatory treatment over the past five years. In 2004, complaints rose 49 percent to 1,522, of which 141 were reports of actual and potentially violent hate crimes.
It appears that those numbers will continue to rise in 2005 and 2006, Walid said.
Look, any genuine "hate crime" (I detest that phrase) should be looked into – hard – and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But for heaven's sake, 1,500 or so reports in a nation with a population of over 300 million is statistically so insignificant as to be meaningless. Especially when so very few actually involve the threat of violence. (I doubt the kind of numbers CAIR publishes since its threshold appears to be very low. The FBI reports less than 10% of CAIR's figure.)
This sort of rhetoric, and calling the US a "police state" which one spokesman does later is so incredibly unhelpful that it beggars belief. If CAIR was less interested in playing the victim card, perhaps a genuine dialog could be opened. At this point, it is difficult to see them of deserving an awful lot of sympathy. The number of "hate crimes" against Jews was much, much higher and they are not trying to get this kind of attention.
UPDATE: From comments, reader Tom Scott supplies the link to the FBI data. 2/3 of all "hate crimes" in the US were committed against Jews. Only 13% were committed against Muslims. Until the Folks at CAIR get a little better perspective on things it is exceedingly difficult to take them seriously. The press really should be paying attention to this.
UPDATE: Rick at The Really Ugly American makes another point. Which reminds me of a joke that was going around a few years ago. The next time Germany conquers France they have to keep it. That'll serve them both right.
UPDATE: Wizbang (oops, got the quote wrong, Jay Tea!) – it should read:
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
King Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?
Other Links to this Post
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Alabama Liberation Front — September 4, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
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The Real Ugly American.com » Blog Archive » Agence Frog Press can kiss my American @$$ — September 4, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
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Liberty and Justice — September 4, 2006 @ 2:26 pm
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Strategic Outlook Institute - Weblog » Blog Archive » Discrimination Against Muslims in the U.S. — September 5, 2006 @ 5:23 am
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ShrinkWrapped — September 5, 2006 @ 8:07 am
By tom scott, September 4, 2006 @ 10:43 am
I know, I know. You dislike “hate crimes. So do I.But…..
By Gaius, September 4, 2006 @ 11:30 am
Yeah, like I said – overwhelmingly against Jews.
By Selia, September 4, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
You have missed the point here in your zeal to construct a straw man argument.
They are noting the large increase of incidents of anti-Muslim hate crimes. Comparing statistics of reported incidents of anti-Muslim hate crime to statistics of reported incidents of anti-Jewish hate crime is a straw man argument. And, a bad one at that.
Anyway, y’all are behind on the propganda push on this issue. Front Page and NewsMax was on this boat back in May. But, it’s nice to see that the same straw man that they constructed in May is being regurgitated by the faithful following so exactly.
And, for what it’s worth: The Jewish community is extremely well organized in regard to dealing with such issues. The Muslim community is not.
I work in Jewish outreach, and do a great deal of work within the Muslim community as well. The difference in attitude is pretty extraordinary.
When a hate crime occurs in the Jewish community, the reaction is one of “go to the police”, immediately. Or go to the Jewish community, where it will be dealt with in some regard.
In the Muslim community, the reaction is entirely different. It is: “Don’t go to the police, you’ll just cause trouble.”
It’s the difference between a truly empowered community and an empowered community.
I find it interesting that y’all are so scared of an empowered group of American citizens, Muslims, in the USA.
It reminds me of the anti-Jewish movement in many ways.
Alabama Liberation Fronts comments are particularly racist. Yes, let’s go after an entire racial group because a few of that race have done something bad.
I’ve seen this movie before. Good day.
By Gaius, September 4, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
No, Selia, as usual for you, you project your beliefs onto others. Love the huffy parting words. Does that mean you won’t be bothering to come by and dump another of your own scarecrows about?
By Selia, September 4, 2006 @ 9:41 pm
No Gaius. But, as usual, the response here is simply to ignore what was said and go off.
And, “good day” is how I alway end my conversations. Such as they are…
Was not meant nor written in a “huff”.
But, intersting that you think so.
Dumping scarecrows?
Perhaps you should know a little of what you speak about before you go around stating such “facts”.
And, the facts here are rather simple: a straw man argument was constructed in order to make a point. Comparing statistics in the manner done is an incorrect logical argument, statistically and it is also incorrect according to simple common sense.
A point you shall continue to ignore no doubt.
The point made in the article clearly referred to the statistical and notable INCREASE (also mentioned in the FBI report cited) of hate crimes directed towards Muslims.
Now, it might make you feel high and mighty, or simply give you the emotional or moral wiggle room you need to make a statistically unsound comparison via straw man, but fortunately, there are people in the world who will call you on your “scarecrows”.
And, it should be noted that your tactic, Gaius, is also a logical fallacy.
Do you know which one?
I seriously doubt it.
By Gaius, September 4, 2006 @ 9:46 pm
Keep projecting, Selia. It’s actually quite amusing that you think you are not. Unfortunately, other can see you are.
You are, of course, and as usual, misrepresenting what the article says.
By Selia, September 5, 2006 @ 4:31 am
No G, what is amusing is how you fall back so reliably upon not addressing the issue at hand and into the soft warm pillows of simply calling someone who doesn’t agree with you “crazy” or some variation of it, like “you’re projecting”. But, of course, you obviously have not a clue as to what projecting means. But, it does come in handy as a diversion doesn’t it?
Misrepresenting what the article says? Oh really? Another wonderful statement which has no basis in reality whatsoever.
Here’s a little recap, since you obviously have difficulty keeping track.
From the article which you link to above…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060903/lf_afp/usattacks5years_060903161707
…is the following paragraph:
“A steady increase…” A point which I’ve made already, which you, for some odd reason, have yet to actually address. I wonder why….
And, what do YOU have to offer on this point?
A straw man argument:
Again, this time for comprehension: There is a basic statistical difference between a cited increase and a comparison of two samples as you offer in your argument. That’s stats 101, Gaius.
What you are attempting to do, and you perpetuate the error by quoting from Tom Scott, is an inappropriate statistical comparison of a net increase in hate crimes from a smaller racial sample and compare it to a larger overall population sample and thus deduct that the smaller sample is insignificant. It’s a fallacy statistically, and logically, because you can’t compare a smaller specific sample with a larger population sample in order to prove that a given statistical INCREASE is insignificant, to use your term.
It’s simply wrong. It’s 2+2=6 you have there mate.
If actuarials applied your statistical logic we’d all be paying 10K a month in insurance premiums. On our cars. Fortunately, statistics is bound by mathematical rules.
Obviously, such rules don’t apply to you.
Further, you fail to address my point that the Muslim community (Detroit for example) has a very different reaction to hate crime these days. They do not see the authorities as being there to help them. They are very afraid.
And, no surprise here, you actually state the following which is statisically incorrect as well:
Another statistical “comparison” that is incorrect. The “it’s so few people affected, who cares!” defense. Well, umm, people say this all the time about the Jews too.
You see, the number you need to be looking at is the numbers of Muslims in the country. A nearly 40% INCREASE in reports of hate crimes against the Muslim population, it’s rather significant, especially considering the social restrictions of reporting crimes in the Muslim community -shame, suspicion of racism and the general attitude of people such as yourself- it’s a wonder that hate crime is reported at all.
But, of course, anyone who actually thinks that comparing a smaller cultural sample (Muslims) to the larger overall total population is a valid statistical analysis probably isn’t going to get this at all.
There are an estimated 5 million Muslims in the USA. According to the 2000 Census, there are about 5.5 million Jews in the USA.
And, the ADL takes every single one of them very very seriously.
So, why are you surprised when CAIR does the same?
If you have a cogent argument to offer in that regard, I would be willing to hear it.
But, if all you are going to offer is more standing by your incorrect statistical analysis with variations on “your a loony moonbat who’s projecting and your nuts and ….’
Then what else can one say?
It’s very predictable, and very boring and very very very over.
The conservative world’s over reliance upon the “they’ll all crazy” defense has become so ridiculous it’s pathetic.