Gaius,

Stop playing the anti-Semitism card. It has as much relevance and as much class as throwing “what, do you hate blacks?” at someone who thinks OJ Simpson was guilty of a vicious double murder.

Israel is not “the Jews,” and to instantly jump up and down about the “the Jews” the minute foreign policies concerning Israel are discussed shows a very brainwashed mentality.

I just gave you a quote from the top commissioners of the 9/11 Commission. It showed that commissioners were willing to keep facts out of the 9/11 report all because they worried about protecting the policy of US support of Israel.

These commissioners knew that the average American would take a look at polices to see if anything could be changed THAT NEEDED TO BE CHANGED in order to serve the interests of the American people, their safety.

The Commission failed its duty to fulfill its mandate to address 9/11 and to make recommendations to prevent another attack with regard to the main motive for the attacks!

Israel is not “the Jews” and the government of Israel has no right to claim immunity from criticism because those that run the government are Jewish. You are intellectually lazy, you are unwilling to look at the facts.

Clearly the producers of “The Path to 9-11″ played the same game the 9/11 Commission played. And this is about a gravely serious subject! They are playing political games with our lives! And you are from such a mindset of being subservient to powerful interests that you kiss the feet of people who are spitting on you. You can’t see the enormous insult it is for these politicians, pundits and producers to lie us about why it is we are being attacked?

Why did they feel it necessary to fabricate a fatwa quote? Because they want to prevent Americans from having the chance to exercise their freedom to reassess the policy of US support of Israel. Lying about the 9/11 motives is the most dramatic lie in the service of the Israel agenda but it is not the only one. Why don’t you make an effort? I laid out in detail the political games being played, how about having the intellectual courage and honestly to examine what I am saying instead of running from it screaming “anti-Semitism” in an attempt to abort discussion of this topic? There is a reason they are lying like this, the reason is these polices are not wonderful and are in fact very ugly if you take actually take a look at them.

Nope. Nobody has ever said any such thing ever.

And you are not quoting anything from al qaeda. They don’t say “convert or die.” That is propaganda used to hide the real motives. You can look for yourself and see that “until America converts to Islam” has not been said by them and they don’t demand such a ridiculous thing. Where ever you go the false quote of “until America converts to Islam,” it isn’t true. The ABC miniseries “The Path to 9-11″ used the same phrase you did and they claimed it came from bin Laden’s fatwa but you can check and see that it doesn’t. If you are reading cbnnews, they quote the movie and as I said, the movie is wrong. (I contacted them to make the correction, apparently they don’t care if it is wrong since they didn’t correct it) Did you say you didn’t see the movie?

“Do you understand the significance of the issuance of several “invitations to Islam” that both al Qaeda and Iran have issued?”

I know what it says and what it doesn’t say.

“He says ignorance of Islam leads Westerners to accept wars waged by their governments and Israel against Muslim countries:”

“To Americans and the rest of Christendom we say, either repent [your] misguided ways and enter into the light of truth or keep your poison to yourself,” he said in English on the new tape.

“But whatever you do don’t attempt to spread your misery and misguidance to our lands,” he added.

It doesn’t say “convert or die,” it is an invitation just as the title of the video said it was. Can you guess why the pundits you are reading lie about “convert or die?” Clearly the pundits use this false motive to cover up the real motives that bin Laden and others have stated for years. can’t you see you are being manipulated and lied to? If you take the time, you could look into the policies and see why politicians would deny that they are the motive. We know intentional suppression is going on. we know that even the 9/11 Commission played the same game. We know from Hamilton and Kean’s new book that there were commissioners who “REJECTED mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the report” because they worried “listing U.S. support for Israel as a root cause of al Qaeda’s opposition to the United States indicated that the United States should reassess that policy.”

Politicians serve special interests that don’t what their polices reassessed and possibly changed so they feed us lies.

Maybe you get your information from televisin movies, don’t presume to think that I do.

“Maybe you should take a look at what some of the Islamists are saying. Things like “the will be no peace until America converts to Islam.

Get your head out, pal. You can buy their propaganda or you can listen to what they say quite openly when they aren’t playing to the Western guilt trip.”

Gaius, they do not say “until America converts to Islam.” The ABC miniseries “The Path to 9-11″ FABRICATED the fatwa quote. That is the ironic thing about your post since you talk about propaganda. ABC’s movie “The Path to 9-11″ was extremely ugly propaganda. It is clear why the ABC movie lied. think about it, why did thye feel it necessary to fabricate a fatwa quote?

I should ask you that question! Going on your premise that they hate freedom, you’d think they’d never take our help– Perhaps they hated the Freedom of the Soviet Union more than they hated our freedom? Hmm, that doesn’t make much sense.

Let’s use the reasons outlined the BBC link above, which you call an ‘excuse’: The policies and meddling in the Middle East by the Soviet Union created a hatred toward the Soviet Union and a desire to expell them from the region. The US, using the ‘an enemy of my enemy is my friend’ theory provided money and weapons to the Mujahideen. A common goal of the defeat of the Soviets was accomplished, so both sides were happy.

But then, again as outlined in the BBC link, America continued to meddle in the middle east, arming and supporting some countries, not helping others. This bred hatred towards the United States, and a desire to strike back at the injustices.

I know, it’s all an excuse; they just hate our freedom. Keep repeating it until it makes sense.

Very nice leftist indoctrination. Now, answer this: If we helped them defeat the Russians why would they have a reason to hate us?

To try to equate Cold War politics with today’s situation is highly dishonest. To keep saying it is all America’s fault is to show a cultural elitism that is appalling.

Of course..I should have seen this coming. Let me see if I have this straight- Osama attacks us without revealing why(!), and when Bush reveals his secret (“they hate our freedom”), Osama has to develop an ‘excuse’. Um, why does he need an ‘excuse’ exactly?

Of course the dirty little secret is that Al Qaeda’s origins are in the Afghan Mujahideen, which the US helped create and finance. Reagan even praised the Mujahideen as “freedom fighters.” That’s kinda funny that he’d call them FREEDOM fighters, isn’t it, what with them hating freedom and all.

> You can buy their propaganda

I’m certainly not buying your propoganda.

> take a look at what some of the Islamists are saying

For every radical islam site I’ll show you an Islam-bashing site. There are plenty of people with way-out ideas, but do they represent mainstream opinion? The fact is plenty of Muslims (not just radicals) are very upset (hate is a strong word) with America. Do you suppose those Muslims are upset with America because of our ‘Freedom’, or America’s policies in the middle east? Do the research and you’ll see it really has very little to do with ‘Freedom’. The Palestinians VOTED FREELY recently; did they vote for the pro-America candidates? No? Who did they vote for, and why?

Given your entire interventionalist pre-emptive war philosophy is pinned on believing they ‘hate us and our freedom’, I understand you’ll stick to to that belief regardless of facts.

Maybe you should take a look at what some of the Islamists are saying. Things like “the will be no peace until America converts to Islam.

Get your head out, pal. You can buy their propaganda or you can listen to what they say quite openly when they aren’t playing to the Western guilt trip.

If they hate freedom, why aren’t they attacking, say, Sweden – A very free country (not nearly as morally stringent as America…nudity on TV, etc)?

Conveniently, the leader of Al Qaeda answered this EXACT question- why they attacked America and not Sweden. Caution: Clicking on the link below might expose you to the actual motivation behind the 9/11 attack, direct from the leader of the movement:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm

> We simply cannot continue the failed policies that led us to the place we are now

Totally agree; I’m glad to hear you do as well! What US policy, as detailed in no uncertain terms by Osama Bin Laden, led Al Qaeda to attack the WTC? Are you willing to change that policy?

Answer that question truthfully and we’ll start making progress. Deny it, ‘stay the course’, and we’ll continue to create two new terrorists for every one we kill.

No one thinks that, let alone says that. He loves strawmen so much.

gaius said:
left wing commenters…like to blame old policies and condemn the war in Iraq and then demand we go back to the same, tired, stupid, failed policies that brought us to where we are today.

Well, President Bush and the Republican party brought us to where we are today, seeing as they’ve been in charge for 6+ years. Or were you saying that President Bush and Republicans have done nothing to substantively change “where we are today?”

I’m not sure what you mean when you say we “demand we go back to the same policies.” Withdrawal from Iraq is a tired, stupid, failed policy? I think it’s a policy in response and rebuttal to this Administration’s invasion- nobody was demanding that we withdraw from Iraq back in 2000, seeing as we weren’t in Iraq back then.