An Odd Post For Me
Here's a post I really can not believe I would ever write, given my upbringing. My Mother's parents, I have mentioned before, came here to the US after the First World War from Norway. They were, obviously, Lutheran, that being by far and away the dominant religion in those parts. My Father, as far as I know had no particular religious orientation although his forebears came to the country a very, very long time ago as French Huguenot - or Protestant - refugees. So my mother, who had been raised in the Lutheran church, pretty much determined what religion we would be raised in. So I was brought up in the Lutheran church, specifically, in the Lutheran Church in America or LCA. We were taught a bit about the history of the church in Sunday School, about Martin Luther and his defiance of the Pope. We were taught that we were part of the catholic - or universal - church but, most assuredly, not part of the Catholic church - as in Roman Catholic. We recognized no Pope. But we were not taught to hate others who did not share our beliefs, either.
I have absolutely no animus toward any religion that anyone chooses to believe in, at least none of the ones I am aware of. I certainly do not judge anyone by the religion they hold. That is between them and their God. Or, if they choose to believe in no God, that's also fine with me. As long as I am not expected to obey their religious beliefs, while still respecting them - there is a difference - I'm pretty laid back about the whole thing that is religion. Still, I never, ever thought I would be defending a Pope and offering what little support I could give to him, given I was not taught to particularly respect the Pope as anything more than a man who happened to head a church that my church had broken away from.
However, I read an article like this one and I begin to get angry. I get angry because a certain element who use religious trappings to try to obtain temporal political power think they have the right to dictate what other people can and cannot think, say or do.
Morocco's foreign ministry announced that its ambassador would be recalled effective Sunday for consultation on the instructions of King Mohammed VI after "offensive remarks about Islam and Muslims made by Pope Benedict XVI at Regensburg university on September 12".
The head of the Roman Catholic Church on Saturday said he "sincerely regretted" that he may have offended Muslims, but stopped short of retracting his words.
The Muslim world seethed with fury over the pope's comments, which critics said linked violence and Islam.
Reacting to the pope's statement, Muslim groups in Egypt said Benedict had not been sufficiently contrite.
"This is not an apology. The Vatican secretary seems content to confirm that the pope is sorry because his remarks were misinterpreted. But they were not misinterpreted," said Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood group.
"The pope made a mistake, he must recognise it and apologise," he added.
In Jordan, Zaki bin Arshid, the general secretary of the Islamic Action Front — one of the country's most influential political parties — said Benedict's comments Saturday were "a step in the right direction, but not enough."
"The apologies must be accompanied by clear and calming letters," he continued, adding, "if the pope's declarations were just an error, then an apology will be sufficient."
But he continued that he hoped the remarks made in the speech were "not the pope's or the Roman Catholic Church's real views, because then the situation would be very serious."
This is an attempt to force compliance to certain "religious" rules and behaviors backed by implicit threats. (The rules are not really religious, they are just being used as an excuse to impose quite worldly things upon others.) That I have a problem with. While I will respect other's rights to hold certain beliefs, I will not obey those beliefs myself. Just as I cheerfully ate meat on Fridays while my Roman Catholic friends (and I had many growing up in those days before that rule was relaxed) could not. I also never once had one of them demand that I not eat meat to comply with their beliefs. Not once did I have any of my friends demand I comply with their beliefs.
And the Pope should not bow to these thugs and their threats and intimidation. For what it is worth, I will stand with him on this, too. Let them foment riots and kill more of their own people over their manufactured outrage. Let them burn each other out of house and home. But no, do not bow to such as these. For they do not do this in the name of their religion. They do this out of hate for all other religions. Not because of the religion, per se, but because the other religions stand in their way of gaining political, temporal power.
Do not bow to such as these.
Personal Thoughts, Religion, World news | Gaius Saturday, 16 September , 2006
By Quilly Mammoth, Sunday, 17 September , 2006 @ 2:31 am
Kind of odd for me too. Presbyterian by upbringing and now a Missouri Synod Lutheran.
Yet, still, the Holy Father has a pull on me. We’ve seen some Holy, righteous men holding that place during my lifetime. I think I shall be very out of sorts should this one be killed by a RoPer.
By Beachhutman, Sunday, 17 September , 2006 @ 3:35 am
“The clash of civilisations is not between Christianity and Islam, it is between nations that encourage religious diversity and those which practise religious intolerance. It is between those who favour open debate and those who think free speech is anathema. The Pope may or may not have known what a hornets’ nest he was stirring up. Even if he did, there was nothing inappropriate, within context, in what he said. ”
The Sunday Times
By A Blue Star Mom, Sunday, 17 September , 2006 @ 5:59 am
Interesting times these are. It seems like we are living out the events of Holy Week that you no doubt learned as a child. And I think this is going to get worse before it gets better.
The threat of attacks on the Pope are just the latest in outrages by the radical elements of the “religion of peace.” Reuters, AP, and AFP helpfully publicize protest rallies of men who are filled with rage over the reading of a medievel quote or the publishing of political cartoons in Denmark. Seventeen people died in riots over an incorrect story of the flushing of a Koran.
Yet, there is no public discussion - no outrage - over the forced conversion of Steve Centanni or Olaf Wiig. But many of us quietly said to each other: “I know what I should do, but I don’t know what I would do if I were in there place.”
As a people, we are slowly being converted to Islam. In England, they have to put away boxes of Kleenix that carry the image of Piglet because it may be offensive to Muslims. In America, manufacturing plants come to a stop to allow Muslim workers to pray. Christian female journalists wear hajib to practice their trade. A New Jersey amusement park hosts an “Adventure Day” where infidels are not allowed.
I could go on…and on…
Out loud, we say things like: “For what it is worth, I will stand with [the Pope] on this, too.”
We may very well have the chance to prove it soon.
By Roland Hesz, Monday, 18 September , 2006 @ 2:56 am
The Pope telling that “Mohamed brought only evil and bad things”, and not telling explicitly that it is not his opinion, was a mistake I think.
On the other hand, it is a typicall overraction on the part of the other party.
I wonder what the reactions would be if someone said: “Jesus brough only evil and bad things to the earth”.
By Gaius, Monday, 18 September , 2006 @ 5:33 am
I rather doubt it would be murder of elderly nuns and burning of mosques. Don’t you?
By Roland Hesz, Monday, 18 September , 2006 @ 7:03 am
Never said that it would be.
Neither that I do agree with the muslims.
If you read I called it “typicall overreaction”.
Now, you can not translate that to “oh, the muslims are right”, can you?
Of course, you can. If you really want to.