Comments on: Today’s I Told You So http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/ Summum nec metuas diem, nec optes - Marcus Valerius Martialis Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:00:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Gaius http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76273 Gaius Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:42:40 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76273 No, Oolius. Unless the generation is reliable, distributing it does not help the situation. If the power source is fickle - dependent on the wind or the sun - it has to be backed up by a reliable source. Those backups have to be up and running - they cannot come on line fast enough (that spinning reserve that Sam mentions.). There are likely several generating stations down for maintenance at this time of year - which is generally not a time of peak demands. <br /><br />This is my field, Oolius. This is what I do, power engineering. <br /><br />Side note to Sam. Most coal stations can (and do) load-follow. Nuclear stations are base load. The early GE BWRs were originally planned as load followers, but the NRC had an issue  with non-licensed load dispatchers controlling them. (A position I agree with.) No, Oolius. Unless the generation is reliable, distributing it does not help the situation. If the power source is fickle – dependent on the wind or the sun – it has to be backed up by a reliable source. Those backups have to be up and running – they cannot come on line fast enough (that spinning reserve that Sam mentions.). There are likely several generating stations down for maintenance at this time of year – which is generally not a time of peak demands.

This is my field, Oolius. This is what I do, power engineering.

Side note to Sam. Most coal stations can (and do) load-follow. Nuclear stations are base load. The early GE BWRs were originally planned as load followers, but the NRC had an issue  with non-licensed load dispatchers controlling them. (A position I agree with.)

]]> By: Sir Oolius http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76268 Sir Oolius Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:02:02 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76268 The point was that it's rather silly to suggest that <em>wind</em> is fickle, when on that day the [lack of] wind-related outage affected virtually no one yet the outage involving [though tangentially] traditional power plants affected millions.  That having been said, our grid needs some work.  I'd probably go more for additional distributed generation capacity, you'd probably go more for additional lines, we'll split the difference and come out ahead.  The point was that it’s rather silly to suggest that wind is fickle, when on that day the [lack of] wind-related outage affected virtually no one yet the outage involving [though tangentially] traditional power plants affected millions.  That having been said, our grid needs some work.  I’d probably go more for additional distributed generation capacity, you’d probably go more for additional lines, we’ll split the difference and come out ahead. 

]]> By: sam http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76261 sam Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:26:24 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76261 Sounds like they didn't have enough spinning reserves on line to handle the loss of wind generation.  Coal and nuclear generation can't ramp fast enough to follow short term load fluctuations, you need gas fired generation (CT or CC) and hydro to do that.  I don't know about gas units, but there isn't much Hydro in the ERCOT region. Sounds like they didn’t have enough spinning reserves on line to handle the loss of wind generation.  Coal and nuclear generation can’t ramp fast enough to follow short term load fluctuations, you need gas fired generation (CT or CC) and hydro to do that.  I don’t know about gas units, but there isn’t much Hydro in the ERCOT region.

]]> By: David M http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76255 David M Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:43:10 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76255 The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - <a href="<a href="http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/02/web-reconnaissance-for-02292008.html" rel="nofollow">http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/02/web-reconnaissance-for-02292008.html</a>"> Web Reconnaissance for 02/29/2008 </a> A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often. The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – <a href="http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/02/web-reconnaissance-for-02292008.html"> Web Reconnaissance for 02/29/2008 </a> A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

]]> By: Gaius http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76233 Gaius Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:52:20 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76233 They did not have sufficient fossil/nuclear generation or they would not have load shed. And you've got the cart before the horse on Florida. A grid disturbance caused the generating facilities to trip off. This is meant to protect the generation and is planned and engineered into the systems. They did not have sufficient fossil/nuclear generation or they would not have load shed. And you’ve got the cart before the horse on Florida. A grid disturbance caused the generating facilities to trip off. This is meant to protect the generation and is planned and engineered into the systems.

]]> By: Sir Oolius http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/comment-page-1/#comment-76231 Sir Oolius Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:36:11 +0000 http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2008/02/29/todays-i-told-you-so/#comment-76231 Traditional sources were also incapable of providing power during the peak surge Tuesday--it's not like they don't have coal fired plants in Texas!  Speaking of Tuesday: that's the very same day 3 million customers lost power in Florida because traditional sources of nuclear, nat. gas, and coal had a hickup.  Traditional sources were also incapable of providing power during the peak surge Tuesday–it’s not like they don’t have coal fired plants in Texas!  Speaking of Tuesday: that’s the very same day 3 million customers lost power in Florida because traditional sources of nuclear, nat. gas, and coal had a hickup. 

]]>